Everyone Loses It At Some Point
About a month and a half ago, I was talking to a classmate about different major teachers and how towards the end of their ministries, they begin to go a little crazy. Dr. Dobson is a good guy but is starting to go political. Dr. D. James Kennedy is going way too political. Pat Roberts is calling for assassinations. Why this happens I don’t know. But people begin to take their ministries in wierd and crazy directions. Rick Warren is no exception to this rule, apparently. He is the guy that wrote Purpose Driven Church and Purpose Driven Life. I have read the latter and there is some good stuff in that book. I’m sure we all remember last year, or the year before, when that lady was being held hostage by an escaped convict and so she read him from Purpose Driven Life and he let her go and went back in to the authorities. Warren is a good guy.
But as of lately he has been saying some pretty wierd stuff. First he is saying the Syria is not a bad country but a peaceful country, especially between Muslims and Christians. His arugments for this are completely bogus. I don’t get it. To hear his statements click here. This site has a transcript and two places for audio. But not only is his views of Syria kinda bogus, he seems to be buying into the social gospel. Click here for a video clip of Warren speaking at P.E.A.C.E. Now I am all for humanitarian aid as a means to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ. But if we want people to change, then our preaching needs to become more compelling and winsome and needs to be Gospel-saturated. Only then will the change take place. I feel like he doesn’t quite trust the gospel like he used to, but that is only a feeling and I don’t speak for Rick Warren. To help his humanitarin push, Senator Barak Obama has been speaking from the Saddleback pulpit. That is cool and all, except that Sen. Obama is for abortion and the murder of the unborn. For more on this click here and here.
I like Rick Warren but I could see something like this happening. In my class on ministry at SBU, I remember the prof., Dr. Fuhrman, teaching out of Purpose Driven Church. One of the things that Warren preached against in that book was being a program church. But then came Purpose Driven Life and he turned it into a program. He started to go against his good, sound advice. It wasn’t surprising to me to see this. But still. The man has a large podium to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and what did he do? He made wierd statments about Syria and preaches about social good and not about sin and redemption. He lets a pro-abortion senator from Illinoise come in to speak on AIDS. This is most unfortunate and I am praying for wisdom to come to Warren so that he might understand and learn from these shortcomings. Will you pray with me?
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Interesting polemic.
I wonder, if one is a double predestinationist (I think this is the only possible kind), should one be more concerned with aiding those in suffering rather than wasting energy preaching on what will ultimately be deaf ears? If God decides who goes and who stays and His will cannot be resisted, should not we let him take care of the saving and converting and we take care of the other images of God in the world?
Can Christians only associate with the perfect in order to try to achieve God’s aims? I don’t remember Christ doing that.
I agree with you that double predestination is really predestination and that single predestination is really not possible. I also like what Warren is trying to do, unite with people who are not Christians to help humanity. That is slightly offensive to me that you say that preaching is wasteful when what I am to preach is Christ crucified and raise from the grave, not feed the poor. I seem to remember that most of the election language comes from Paul’s letters yet he traveled up and down the Agean Sea to preach that gospel. You would have to then say that Paul wasted his time. What better aid can I give someone, even as a double predestination guy (or just predesination) than to preach to them the gospel that will save their souls?
I also remember that Christ only associated with them to call them to repentance, not to just give them food. The meeting of the physical and social needs was the means to preaching the good news. If Warren is doing this to build a bridge for a call to repentance and faith in Jesus, excellent. But I did not detect that in the video. He was more concerned with social gospel, at least that is why I felt like he was saying. He didn’t sound like there was a call to repentance.
That is just it, Hank, in that system (Calvinism) it matters not if you preach to them or not, those that God wills will come, one way or another.
Now it may indeed be you that God uses to bring them to salvation. In that, what you are doing is extremely valuable. If they way I view things happen to be the case, then you are part of the struggle for God’s kingdom and I know of no nobler vocation than to bring souls into the fold. So, in light of that, don’t be offended. If you are, it is not my intention to belittle what you are doing. So, please accept my apologies.
The fact remains that we are but cogs in God’s machine and whatever actions we take, they are all part of the plan. That is what I am getting at. In light of God’s sovereignty in getting the souls to heaven that cannot be frustrated in any way, perhaps Calvinists should place a priority in helping the suffering of all humans who are worthy of our compassion over trying to evangelize the whole entire world without ever associating with any that might not be of Jesus’ complete character.
But do not forget that God commanded men to preach to gospel. The same Paul who said, “though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of this call—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger,’” (Romans 9:11
) also said in exactly one chapter later, “For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him uof whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear vwithout someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news’…So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ” (Romans 10:14-17
). If I am going to be Biblical I must believe in election and I must preach the gospel and call them to repentance. It is a matter of believing God in what he has said. So in the Bible it is of the utmost importance, no matter if you are Arminian, Calvinist, or somewhere in between, to preach the gospel. To not is to violate God’s commands and will.
If that Calvinist will help people in humanitarian ways so that people may be called to repentance, by using humanitarian aid to build the relationship to decalre their sinfulness and the need of Christ and that God has called them to repent, then that is fine. If any person is giving humanitarian aid and is not calling for repentance yet at the same time calls himself or herself a Christian, he is not doing what Christ called them to do in Matthew 28:18-20
.
My fear with Warren is that he is preaching what people want to hear. Everywhere I look some athelete or musician or Hollywood actor is saying for me to give. But to them, the giving is an end to itself. Christ calls me to give and serve as a means to preach the gospel. People like to hear be a humanitarian for the sake of being a humanitarian. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
warns, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” We can’t preach something because the people want to hear it or preach only the parts of the Bible that don’t offend people. To do that is to leave the whole purpose of Jesus coming to the earth: to save sinners by his death and resurrection. The very issue I am bringing up with Warren is the gospel itself. I fear that he might lose the gospel and he is too influential to lose him to some social gospel. It would be a victory for sin and Satan if we lose his influence. God wouldn’t have been thwarted, but the victory is still there.
No offense is taken because I know the work to which I have been called and I know what you were getting at. But the wording of that post is kinda “ouch!” at first reading.
How would it be a victory for him? God’s plan cannot be frustrated.
But that is a side point. I like the majority of what you are saying. If you read closely, I affirm your entire first section.
I also think that the Mt quote is a bit out of context. That was not the summation of Christ’s teachings. Just as it is a woe that the the social gospel often leaves out Christ’s call to repentance and turning towards Him, I fear for the other side to loose the emphasis on helping the poor, helping the least of these.
Jesus did both, the apostles did both, the early church did both. We should make sure that we do both. For Jesus, feeding a hungry person was not merely an means to another end, it was easing the suffering of that real person with real sufferings. That was an end in itself. Just because it is subordinate to salvation, for salvation is eternal, does not mean that humanitarian acts are only a means to preaching.
As a side note, I have never been a fan of Warren.
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The victory for sin and Satan is not in an eternal sense ending in Warren’s condemnation. The preaching to please itching ears is a sin. Satan and sin desire for us to fall from righteousness, to present our members to sin as slaves. It would be a victory not over God but over Rick Warren, I don’t think the post made that very clear. Sorry.
I too fear that many Christians will go over seas, or to some area here at home, and preach the gospel but never actually love the people. That is something that needs to be guarded against. No the Great Commission is not the summation of Christ’s teaching but it is what he commissioned the church to do.
In an unreached world, the only thing we should be doing is preaching the gospel. That is the priority. Thus everything done should be done in a way that advances the preaching of the gospel. Now in a place that is full of believers, no the focus should not to be preaching the gospel in such a way as to save souls. The preaching of the gospel should be to build and encourage souls and the humanitarian effort should be a part of that preaching. It all depends upon the audience.
And as I said earlier, I liked some of the stuff he said in his books. But the more I preach, the less I like sermons that have “10 things to do so have the Holy Spirit” or “7 Keys to a biblical Marriage” or “5 Steps to a closer walk with God.” That becomes more legalistic than grace and gospel. Warren more and more falls into these programs that I just don’t like. It is also why most preaching I hear on the radio isn’t very popular with me personally. Most students here at the seminary will hear me talk about guys like Dr. Adrian Rogers’ giving all of these steps to being a better Christian and think I’m crazy. But oh well. I like just preaching the Word, not being a psychologist when I am in the pulpit.
One def has to tailor your approach to the people one is called to.
Do you think that sometimes in ministry one needs to play the role of healer of spirits (mental attitudes) rather than purely play the role of bible exegeter? The old pastor/preacher question. Now, pop-psychology and self-help I detest and it sounds like you do too. But, what I am asking and am in no way qualified to answer, is if the bible is your sole material up there.
Jesus’ actions were always to call atention to a heavenly truth. Yes Jesus eased suffering, but look at some of his miracles. Luke 17:11-19
and the healing of the Ten Lepers. They called out for cleansing of the disease and Jesus gave it to them. One man, a gentile, returns and what does Jesus then focus on? Not the man’s body but his soul. The Greek word for “has made you well” is the word sozo and is where we get soteriology and salvation. Immediately he focuses on eternal salvation. In Mark 2:1-12
the paralytic was lowered down through the roof. When Jesus healed the man he said, “My son, your sins are forgiven.” He talked about sin and eternal forgiveness and the healing was just a way to communicate that. The same thing in John 5:1-17
where Jesus told the man after washing in the pool, “Sin no more that nothing worse may happen to you.” Again he speaks of sin being forgiven and focuses on eternal matters.
The same is true for the apostles. In Acts 3
Peter and John healed the beggar at the Beautiful Gate. When the people saw this, Peter began to preach Jesus Christ crucified. Paul in Paphos blinded a man. The result of the blinding, even though Paul was punishing Bar-Jesus, was the proconsul believing after being astonished by Jesus’ teachings (Acts 13:4-12
). So again I must say like earlier, only to a Christian community does the humanitarian acts serve as an expression of love not advancing the gospel to them, but commemorating the gospel with them.
It is by the word we are saved. Paul says, “faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ” (Romans 10:17
) and also “Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by chearing with faith?” (Galatians 3:2
) and also “I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by jhis appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.” Peter said, “since you have been born again, enot of perishable seed but of imperishable, through fthe living and abiding word of God” (1 Peter 1:23
). If souls are going to be changed and the kingdom of Christ advanced, the Word must be preached.
The Bible is my text. But I will incorporate other sources only if they benefit one’s understanding of the Bible. So to answer the question, yes and no. Yes I preach only the Bible, but I will use some extra-biblical sources if and only if they help understand the Bible; otherwise I won’t use anything outside of the Bible. I actually try to avoid using outside material when I preach. I have used other materials, such as my Thanksgiving sermon and Luther. But I have to preach the Word to change lives, whether saved or not.
Do I think that “sometimes in ministry one needs to play the role of healer of spirits (mental attitudes) rather than purely play the role of bible exegeter?” Again yes and no. If healing the body will open the door to call people to repentance and give ear to the gospel then yes. But if that is all I do and not preach the gospel, not talking about being a sunday-morning exegetical prof but preaching Christ crucified, then my healing has been for nothing because they have been given only temporal help.
That can also get into roles of the office of elder v. deacon. I don’t think that this is the place for that discussion.
I agree, we have taken this discussion way off it’s intended track.
It happens. I enjoyed the discussion though.