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	<title>Comments on: Full vs. Partial: Test Case in the Resurrection</title>
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	<link>http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/</link>
	<description>1 Chronicles 16:27</description>
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		<title>By: Hank</title>
		<link>http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/comment-page-1/#comment-62830</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/#comment-62830</guid>
		<description>Dion,

Here are my initial thoughts to your comments.

As to your second comment, note the similar language of 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4. Trumpets and the raising of the dead. Why use the such language for two different events? Both texts have the resurrection in view. First Thessalonians speaks of the Christians who are caught up into eternity with Christ after those who have died have raised first. First Corinthians speaks of after the dead raise, &quot;we&quot;, specifically our bodies, will be changed from perishable to imperishable and mortal to immortal. I see no reason in the text to separate the dead from the &quot;we,&quot; but even so after the dead raise, as in 1 Thessalonians, the Christians who are &quot;we&quot; are changed. Again seems like the same event.

As far as the genre, if you can read Greek, check out 2 Thessalonians 2 and the passage about the man of lawlessness. In the Pauline corpus, the apocalyptical sections mirror that of the Hebrew prophets and take a distinct form that is very difficult to make sense of. First Corinthians 15 does not read like that. Further more, I must ask when does Paul stop utilizing didactic language and move into apocalyptic? The switch that one can detect in the Greek in 2 Thessalonians 2 does not occur in 1 Corinthians 15. His style remains consistent all the way through. In 2 Thessalonians 1-2, one can see the didactic that move to Pauline apocalyptic and then back to didactic. With the consistency that is in 1 Corinthians 15, where does the apocalyptic begin? Verse 1 or 12 or 21? Is it 15:35 or 15:50? I don&#039;t see the change.

In regards to the trumpet and proving literal trumpets vs metaphorical or figurative ones, the question can be turned around just as easily and I could ask for that person to prove that they are figurative. Since the genre isn&#039;t apocalypse but didactic, it makes sense to say that the trumpets are literal, especially since the Roman Triumph language is still in view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dion,</p>
<p>Here are my initial thoughts to your comments.</p>
<p>As to your second comment, note the similar language of <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 15">1 Corinthians 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> and <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thessalonians+4" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Thessalonians 4">1 Thessalonians 4</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thessalonians+4" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>. Trumpets and the raising of the dead. Why use the such language for two different events? Both texts have the resurrection in view. First Thessalonians speaks of the Christians who are caught up into eternity with Christ after those who have died have raised first. First Corinthians speaks of after the dead raise, &#8220;we&#8221;, specifically our bodies, will be changed from perishable to imperishable and mortal to immortal. I see no reason in the text to separate the dead from the &#8220;we,&#8221; but even so after the dead raise, as in 1 Thessalonians, the Christians who are &#8220;we&#8221; are changed. Again seems like the same event.</p>
<p>As far as the genre, if you can read Greek, check out <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+2" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thessalonians 2">2 Thessalonians 2</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+2" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> and the passage about the man of lawlessness. In the Pauline corpus, the apocalyptical sections mirror that of the Hebrew prophets and take a distinct form that is very difficult to make sense of. <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 15">First Corinthians 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> does not read like that. Further more, I must ask when does Paul stop utilizing didactic language and move into apocalyptic? The switch that one can detect in the Greek in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+2" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thessalonians 2">2 Thessalonians 2</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+2" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> does not occur in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 15">1 Corinthians 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>. His style remains consistent all the way through. In <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+1-2" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thessalonians 1-2">2 Thessalonians 1-2</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thessalonians+1-2" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>, one can see the didactic that move to Pauline apocalyptic and then back to didactic. With the consistency that is in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 15">1 Corinthians 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>, where does the apocalyptic begin? Verse 1 or 12 or 21? Is it 15:35 or 15:50? I don&#8217;t see the change.</p>
<p>In regards to the trumpet and proving literal trumpets vs metaphorical or figurative ones, the question can be turned around just as easily and I could ask for that person to prove that they are figurative. Since the genre isn&#8217;t apocalypse but didactic, it makes sense to say that the trumpets are literal, especially since the Roman Triumph language is still in view.</p>
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		<title>By: dion</title>
		<link>http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/comment-page-1/#comment-62403</link>
		<dc:creator>dion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/#comment-62403</guid>
		<description>I think your assuming that 1 Thess 4:13-18 is the same event as 1 Cor 15! Please show a reason (s) for this assertion! 

Please show that 1 cor 15 is talking about a physical resurrection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your assuming that <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thess+4%3A13-18" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Thess 4:13-18">1 Thess 4:13-18</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thess+4%3A13-18" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> is the same event as <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 15">1 Cor 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a>! Please show a reason (s) for this assertion! </p>
<p>Please show that 1 cor 15 is talking about a physical resurrection.</p>
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		<title>By: dion</title>
		<link>http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/comment-page-1/#comment-62402</link>
		<dc:creator>dion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hank.masstheology.com/archives/full-vs-partial-test-case-in-the-resurrection/#comment-62402</guid>
		<description>I would tend to agree with your position; but you stated that Paul in 1 Cor 15 was not writing in &quot;apocalyptic genre.&quot; What is v 52 If not apocalyptic language? 

Please prove that there are literal trumpets in heaven? I mean I am dealing with many in my church who interpret 1 cor 15 in apocalyptic sense; not literal!  So,why should we take it in a physical literal sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would tend to agree with your position; but you stated that Paul in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+15" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 15">1 Cor 15</a><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor+15" class="scripturizer_newwindow" title="Open this passage in a new browser window" target="_new"><img src="http://www.hank.masstheology.com/wp-content/plugins/the-holy-scripturizer/new-window.gif" alt="Open Link in New Window" /></a> was not writing in &#8220;apocalyptic genre.&#8221; What is v 52 If not apocalyptic language? </p>
<p>Please prove that there are literal trumpets in heaven? I mean I am dealing with many in my church who interpret 1 cor 15 in apocalyptic sense; not literal!  So,why should we take it in a physical literal sense?</p>
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